The Therapist’s Journey: Expectations vs. Realities

Episode Transcription

Sabrina (00:00)
Hi, Julia, how are you? Good, thanks. So today we're going to talk about expectations versus the reality of our profession of being a therapist. So yeah, generally speaking, I think that we both had very different expectations versus actually going into the field and seeing what the reality was or is.

Julia Baum (00:02)
Hey Sabrina, I'm good. How are you?

Sabrina (00:29)
So I'm curious to know when you hear me say the expectations you had as a therapist coming in, what comes to your mind?

Julia Baum (00:38)
I think going in, my idea of who a therapy client was and the type of person that I as a therapist would be working with was very, very narrow and very limited to my experiences in life. I think getting into this field, it was the

Sabrina (00:54)
Huh.

Julia Baum (01:06)
big leap into a much bigger world than I realized existed. But yeah, think initially I had a very, very tight idea of the type of person that goes to therapy and what they're looking for in therapy and what the therapist is doing with them. So that has been blown out of the water since.

Sabrina (01:13)
Nice.

Hmm.

Nice.

Julia Baum (01:35)
since getting into the field, what about you?

Sabrina (01:38)
Well, yeah, I mean, it's the same with me as well. Like my expectations were, I think they were just like totally unrealistic.

I thought I had very stereotypical ideas of what that would look like. But I did have a question for you. You said your view was narrow. Can you give me an example?

Julia Baum (01:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I mean, I was just kind of thinking everyone's like me. so the things that I would want to talk to a therapist about and the kind of problems that I deal with in my life, I thought that's just the case for everyone. And just very oblivious to

Sabrina (02:11)
Yeah.

Okay.

I will help you.

Julia Baum (02:30)
the wide scope of life experiences and challenges that people deal with and just different realities that people exist in and, you know, like what matters to people kind of, it goes in different orders, know, values and priorities are ranked differently person to person. And so I just thought everyone is basically like me, which I mean,

Sabrina (02:41)
Yeah.

Right?

Julia Baum (02:58)
Like in an essence, I guess, there's commonality among human beings. But just the kind of topics that were on my mind and things I wanted to talk about, I just assumed this is what everyone is thinking about and worried about. And that's what I'm going to be dealing with day in and day out if I'm a therapist working with people.

Sabrina (03:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, that makes sense to a certain extent because you only had, I'm guessing you only had yourself as a model. And especially when we're younger, I think we tend to be very, I don't want to say like self-focused. Well, yeah, we do tend to be more self-focused when we're younger, at least I was. And most of the people I was surrounded with were, because you're trying to figure out your identity and who you are and what you're going to do in life or what that's going to look like.

Julia Baum (03:31)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (03:52)
but you know, it's interesting that you felt kind of, you had this narrow focus of, or image, I want to say, of what that was going to look like. I feel like mine was too, was the opposite. It was like, anything goes. Like I'm, I'm going to have like, you know, somebody that's

Julia Baum (04:08)
Okay.

Sabrina (04:13)
you know, that it's like a super high powered lawyer coming in and telling me some, you know, again, very stereotypical stuff that I probably had seen on TV or whatever. They're going to come in and they're going to tell me about an affair and it's going to be scandalous, but also like, I'll get really invested and I'll want, you know, to help my client and be the savior kind of thing to, to like, you know, a person that like can't get out of bed in the morning and comes into the office, still somehow comes into the office.

Julia Baum (04:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Sabrina (04:43)
And then has like what I in my mind envision to be almost like a breakdown. And I'm putting that in air quotes, cause that's not a real thing. And in our field, it's really what I was thinking of was like a panic attack or something, someone having a panic attack, which yeah, that actually has happened before and probably will continue to cause that's, you know, anxiety is one of the things that I work with, but not in the way that I thought.

Julia Baum (05:12)
Yeah.

So how is the reality of your actual work as a therapist differing from that imagined career?

Sabrina (05:26)
Well, I want to say the biggest thing is that I get to choose who I work with. And that has been both really freeing and I think also is beneficial for the people that I work with because I truly just work with people I want to work with most of, you know, most of the time. And that doesn't mean that some of them aren't harder than others.

Julia Baum (05:32)
Mmm.

Sabrina (05:51)
Certainly they are, they have a whole range, but it's more of a defined group and it's more within a certain age range. typically, it's not like in an inpatient setting at a hospital where people are in crisis and they have a full team of doctors around and if they need an injection of some sort, they can get it.

you know, it's, that's like crisis management, and very severe persistent mental illness. This is in private practice where I'm working. These are everyday people with, you know, issues that, yeah, some of them have diagnoses, but they're not, they're still able to live full lives, if that makes sense. And their lives are very similar. You know, they

A lot of my clients struggle with similar things that I've struggled with or that people I know and my family and friends struggle with. I think it was really like, I thought there was going to be more of a separation or something between me and my clients. I don't know.

Julia Baum (06:54)
Mm.

Interesting. I guess in a way we're

sort of saying opposite things, but I can also completely relate to what you were saying too.

Sabrina (07:04)
Yeah, how so?

Julia Baum (07:07)
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've been through, if not exactly what my clients have been through, at least like the emotional or the psychological parallels of what clients are going through. And if not exactly the same scenario, then it's like, least I of, I felt the way they're feeling, I think.

Sabrina (07:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Like pretty similar.

Yeah, I don't think I realized or recognized how helpful that can be as a therapist to your clients because it's really like, it's like you fast track straight to the problem. If you know, I've felt that before. And if you're assessing it properly, or you have a good sense of like, this may be what they're thinking and feeling. And of course you're looking for cues. It really makes it easier. And I mean,

Julia Baum (07:38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sabrina (08:01)
It's

not easy, but you know what I mean.

Julia Baum (08:03)
Yeah. Yeah. So in that sense, yeah, I think life experience has a lot to do with how you work as a therapist.

Sabrina (08:14)
That is not something that I knew going in. No clue.

Julia Baum (08:18)
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

That's true. Yeah, I was very focused on learning about theory when I was in grad school. I was super fascinated with learning about all the different theories and the techniques and interventions. Yeah, but I think the more seasoned you are as a therapist, the more you can kind of integrate that into your own way of being a therapist instead of kind of

Sabrina (08:23)
BWAH

Yeah.

Of course.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (08:48)
mimicking techniques that you've learned about, you know, it's more like they come through in your own way, like an artist.

Sabrina (08:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. No, that's absolutely

right. It's like, it's exactly like an artist. you know, for those of you who don't know, Julia and I both come from a background of more artistic beginnings, I want to say. Like you were in, you majored in photography. Is that right? Yeah. And I majored in music, playing saxophone actually in undergrad. So very different. We ended up in different fields, but

Julia Baum (09:13)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Sabrina (09:25)
I see that quite often that, a lot of therapists are coming to this from like, as like a second profession and from like a wide array of different fields. But I have seen like, I noticed like there does seem to be a link between that artist. I think that's my theory, you know, between like the artist in us and what we're doing, because it's not the same as like a medical doctor. It is healthcare.

Julia Baum (09:33)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (09:53)
It absolutely is, but it's not the same. you know, so that, yeah.

Julia Baum (09:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's emotional health care. Yeah.

Yeah, that's actually an interesting aspect of our work is the creativity piece. And I didn't even understand that in the beginning at all. Like, I remember specifically for my internship when my supervisor had to kind of

Sabrina (10:07)
Yeah.

No.

Julia Baum (10:19)
score my performance and we would go over that together. And one of the things that needed to be rated was the level of creativity within the therapy. And at the time I was just like, how could you possibly be creative? I don't understand. And I don't know, that took a long time because I do think it's the same as any

Sabrina (10:31)
Huh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (10:49)
art form or craft or anything that you learn, you kind of have to learn it so well that you can throw out the rules and somehow still get it.

Sabrina (11:00)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I think that's a perfect way of saying it. Yeah.

Julia Baum (11:05)
Yeah, I think

as like a brand new therapist in training, you know, I was just kind of constantly going through like the Rolodex of if this, then, you know, like if a client does this, then I will do this. Yeah. And like kind of trying to prepare in advance and just, but

Sabrina (11:21)
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, kind of like a robot in a way, but

I did that too,

yeah.

Julia Baum (11:35)
it's much more like I feel fine just rolling in and because I'm a lot more organic and probably creative. But anyway, I think that's an aspect I had no idea was a part of being a therapist.

Sabrina (11:42)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because I also think that that's... I don't know. When we were like, initially when we decided to do this episode, we had thought about some ideas here and there. It did not occur to me that there is that creativity aspect. And, you know, this could bring us down another like avenue or sort of path talking about like, what does creativity even mean?

But I think in this context, as a therapist, being creative means being able to adapt in the situation that you're in with the individual that you're with and drawing not on just theoretical sort of ideas of, you know, or theories that are important to learn and techniques that are useful in certain situations, but being able to like integrate that in the moment as it's happening. And that's hard.

Julia Baum (12:46)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's kind of a defining factor of a therapist's experience level. Yeah, like how able are they to kind of authentically and organically respond to that precise moment, like with this very person and

Sabrina (12:56)
Yeah.

No.

Julia Baum (13:09)
And even being able to feel that out beyond just like, if there was like a transcript of the conversation and like, what would be the appropriate response and, you know, write it out. It could be really different than in the moment being able to read the energy and the emotion and like the eye contact and everything. Just being very like genuine and whatever that response is.

Sabrina (13:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you kind of have to tune in to the experience. it's like, you know, on one hand, I feel blessed in the sense of like, every session I have, I'm not bored. You know, I'm never bored by what comes up, even if it's like, you know, we're working on the same thing for a while, which happens, but I don't know, there's always a curve ball.

Julia Baum (13:37)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (13:59)
And so it's like, we have these theoretical models and these techniques that we use as therapists and God knows there are so many acronyms for the different like techniques out there, you know, I could list them all off and a tongue twister of different techniques and things, but none of it really, it doesn't do justice to like what is happening in the moment. And I think

Julia Baum (14:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (14:27)
Yeah, that experience is just so important as a therapist. Yeah.

Julia Baum (14:32)
Mm hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I see us as like both artists and crafts people.

Sabrina (14:40)
Yeah,

yeah, you need the background to and some of the knowledge to know.

Julia Baum (14:44)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

as well as philosophers. yeah, yeah. But anyway, so guess I'm curious, what were your expectations beforehand in terms of how

Sabrina (14:51)
Yeah, I've heard, yeah, that said.

Julia Baum (15:11)
may impact you or your life.

Sabrina (15:15)
That's a great question. You know, don't think I really knew or even took that into consideration. I'm a bit embarrassed to say. Like, I think I just assumed that, okay, I'm gonna go get some training in this, get some experience in it, and I'm just gonna learn how to sort of compartmentalize or create.

adequate distance that both maintains the boundaries of the relationship between a client and a therapist and also, you know, the idea of vulnerability was not top of mind back then, I think. Yeah, because I mean, I got my degree before or right around the time that Brené Brown came out with like that vulnerability study that she did that's so groundbreaking and...

And so vulnerability, think when I was just going into grad school was not very popular actually. And I know that's a little off topic, but I think it's related in the sense of like, just the fact that people come in with going through experiences that we've gone through as well. That is gonna, it's bound to bring up counter-transference, which is for those of you who don't know is a fancy sort of word.

for, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Julia. You know, it's sort of like when something happens in this session that reminds you of something personal or reminds a therapist of something that is personal to them and they sort of lose objectivity a little bit in that moment. so, you know, and that happens often because we're people. And so the guidance is like, okay, well, reflect on it afterwards, go and

consult with another therapist and try to figure out what happened there. But yeah, that counter-transference is important and part of the work and to be expected, I think.

Julia Baum (17:10)
Yeah, that's actually a good point about Brene Brown coming out with that, because I remember being assigned to watch her TED Talk for one of my classes in grad school. And that's, I think, a really good example of how these cultural shifts or popular buzzwords and the zeitgeist and stuff, they really do affect

Sabrina (17:19)
That's so funny.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (17:38)
therapy. I mean, it has become so much more common that therapists are more transparent than they used to be. You know, like the really stereotypical Freudian therapist who is a blank slate. You know, they're not even looking at the client. Well, the client is the patient, considered a patient. And yeah,

Sabrina (17:39)
Yes.

out.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah, they're taking notes. Right.

Julia Baum (18:08)
Freudian therapists is sitting behind them. So there's no eye contact and they're just sort of analyzing this patient and whatever. And now it's so much more, okay, we're face to face. We're being real and we're being honest with each other and people expect that. And I never really thought about it, but I think that the whole like vulnerability movement that Brene Brown popularized, I think has a role in that expectation.

Sabrina (18:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (18:37)
even like therapists being online and having social media accounts and showing parts of their personal lives. That was like so unheard of back in the day. That would be very, very frowned upon.

Sabrina (18:39)
for sure.

Oh my gosh, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean, I remember, I think we were in grad school around the same time. Um, but I remember when I was in my program, you know, we had an ethics course or a course on ethics and, uh, you know, dual relationships, what does that look like? All that stuff. Um, and the idea of social media, I, I pretty sure when I started in this field, social media was also more than 10 years ago now, but when I started, it was a no-no.

Julia Baum (19:02)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (19:28)
You know, I had, as soon as we entered into like our practicum and internship sites, our professors were like, make sure that you, you know, take a look at what's online about you because people are going to want to look into that, make sure that you set everything to private. And so I did that. And I think at one point I even tried to like change the names on, well, no, I definitely tried to do that many times on one of the accounts. So.

But that has totally shifted as well. Like you're saying, you have therapists now that are like really, because people want that vulnerability. It's like the field has done a 180 from the Freudian sort of time.

Julia Baum (20:08)
huh.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think from the time we started grad school to now, things have radically changed in a lot of ways. Like even now, walk and talk therapy is like more and more of a thing, which I think became a lot bigger during the pandemic especially. But before that, I think that was viewed more

Sabrina (20:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (20:41)
popularly as breaking confidentiality. And it's just different. What people believe is acceptable and what they expect has really changed. And we're always trying to pick up on what's going on, because we learn a certain thing, and then that changes. And maybe it's, yeah.

Sabrina (20:48)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And we have to just adapt

on the fly to it. You know, we don't have a choice.

Julia Baum (21:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it happens really quickly. And a lot of it is through popular culture and just how social norms change. Yeah, it's interesting.

Sabrina (21:23)
Yeah.

I think from the perspective again of like expectations going into the field versus the realities, that was also something I wouldn't have, I don't know why, it just didn't really occur to me that like, you know, go to grad school, that's kind of considered basic training for therapists, you do that, and then you're good. The rest is just, you you learn on the go. It's, you know, I didn't realize,

Julia Baum (21:51)
Mmm.

Sabrina (21:57)
how integral and important it is to keep up with your trainings, to learn the, like you're saying, right, the new trends and really get on top of that. And I think one thing while you were talking stuck out to me about this is like, sometimes I learn about new cultural changes from my clients and it throws me off a little bit. I mean, it used to throw me off more. Now I just like, I'm pretty honest and I'm like,

Julia Baum (22:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (22:24)
I don't know what that means. You know, especially if I'm working with like younger clients, I'll just be like, look, I'm old. Tell me what does that even mean? You know, and then we have a good laugh and then they like kind of educate me and it's, like a fun. Yeah.

Julia Baum (22:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Uh-huh. Well, that's again, like your vulnerability. Like I feel like in the past, your age

would have not been something to even comment on, you know?

Sabrina (22:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

And I actually had a client or a client inquiry of maybe a year ago, somebody asked me specifically, like pointedly, how old do you, how old I am, because this, and this person had a very good, well-defined idea of what they wanted to work or what kind of clinician they wanted to work with. And they wanted someone around their age range. And you know, that's something that also I,

I've been encouraged by my own consultants and stuff like that to encourage my clients to do, which is like, find a therapist that fits, that will match you. You're not stuck with one if that's not working. You can find another one. Don't give up, keep trying. But I think, again, that question can, like, I give that person props because it does make a difference what

age range you are, it makes a difference what period of life you're in. It's not like we can't work with people outside of our age range. We can and do all the time, but it makes a difference.

Julia Baum (23:50)
Mm-hmm.

So did you tell them your exact age?

Sabrina (24:02)
I waffled a bit at first and I was a little general about it. I gave her like, I'm in the early blank. I'm not going to say here either. Yeah.

Julia Baum (24:07)
Yeah.

See, this is our training. Like it's so deeply embedded,

but I, I want to say, I'm not sure this would actually be interesting if anyone can comment on this, but I want to say people who are newer to the field or, you know, in training now, I wonder if they would be more, you know, prime to just say their age or, I don't know. I mean, you'd still want to explore like, what is the.

Sabrina (24:22)
haha

Yeah.

Yeah

Julia Baum (24:39)
question really mean to you and what does the answer represent to you? And I still want to explore that, I think both of us are so, so like indoctrinated into the idea of being anonymous. And it's, it's really hard to break that training.

Sabrina (24:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It is, and I think that's also been a big part of our struggle in doing this podcast is like, now we're center stage right now. I spend my career, you know, being sort of a listener and somebody that facilitates and helps and guides, but I'm not in the spotlight. You know, my client is, and I'm comfortable with that. I feel like that's.

Maybe the same or similar with you, is that right? So yeah, mean, yeah, that client inquiry, it was actually really a great consult. I was doing a free consultation, a phone consultation to see if we were going to be a good match. If I had the skills, blah, blah, to work with the client.

Julia Baum (25:32)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (25:59)
I didn't end up working with the client. They were like, that's not, it was an age thing. And so I asked like, you what is it about that, you know, is maybe not off putting, but not quite what you're looking for. Cause I wasn't that far off age wise, but I wasn't in in that person's And,

Julia Baum (26:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, yeah.

Sabrina (26:25)
You know, what they said was that they had a bad experience before with someone and they felt that that was age related and experience related and stuff like that. And so, you know, that's fair. I'm not going to change that in one phone call necessarily, but,

Julia Baum (26:34)
Hmm.

Sabrina (26:46)
I do think it's important for people to feel empowered also to find a therapist that matches somewhat closely what they're looking for. Maybe not a hundred percent, that might be a little much, cause that's also what's going on there. But yeah, if you want someone that is in the queer community, for example, because there's a lived experience there or a therapist of color or any other kind of minority,

Julia Baum (27:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (27:13)
There are websites for that now and search engines, but that was not the case when we were in grad school.

Julia Baum (27:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, that wasn't very common. Yeah, that's become a lot more prevalent for sure. Yeah.

Sabrina (27:23)
Yeah.

Yeah,

it's a lot.

Julia Baum (27:31)
I know. yeah, it's like an endless topic in a way. I know. I know. I also want to say that there is some validity still to a therapist having some anonymity in the relationship. mean, I think

Sabrina (27:35)
I know, I'm like, we could just keep going and keep going and we'd never stop.

Yeah,

Julia Baum (27:55)
I the idea is

Sabrina (27:55)
yeah, for sure.

Julia Baum (27:58)
I try to be very emotionally transparent and honest about what I'm thinking and feeling in a session. But in terms of details about my life, based on my training and experience, I often don't see that as a benefit to the client. So I leave that out. But I think

Sabrina (28:22)
Yeah, I do too.

Julia Baum (28:23)
Attitudes about that are definitely changing. I don't know. I would be very curious to hear from both therapists that are in training now or are very early in their career or also on the other end, much, much later in their career and have trained much before us, which was in the early.

Sabrina (28:46)
huh.

Julia Baum (28:51)
in 2000 teens ish.

Sabrina (28:54)
Yeah.

It would be like prior to 2012, 2011, 2010, that era, that decade.

Julia Baum (29:01)
Yeah, that, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, to think about how much things have changed like decade to decade, it's pretty dramatic.

Sabrina (29:07)
Yeah.

It really is, and it has such a profound effect in therapy because the way that cultural shifts occur is like, it's kind of a mindset shift. So you have to actually really have some facility or comfort with what's happening in here and now, because that's the context that your client is bringing in with them.

Julia Baum (29:37)
Hmm.

Sabrina (29:39)
I'd also be really curious to hear maybe if we have any listeners right now, if from anybody about, you know, what their thoughts are about, you know, what would be your preference for in a therapist? Do you want a therapist that just kind of really tells you all the details about their personal life? It's even hard for me to say that because I'm like, that's no, never. No, it's like I'm.

Julia Baum (30:03)
Yeah.

Yeah

Sabrina (30:08)
Like you, I'm trained not to do that.

Julia Baum (30:10)
I know. Yeah. I think it's also

so person to person. Sorry to interrupt you. yeah, I think it's also about the dynamics of the relationship and how that information is being used in the session. And yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina (30:17)
No, go for it.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a huge part of it. You know, there

are some things that are like situations where I think it is valuable. I'll give you an example with people who are career changers and not all of them, but especially someone going into like a health field specialty or something like that. And I've done this. I'm thinking about a case while back, but

I waited, I didn't say to them that, yeah, I'm a career changer too, even though it's on my website. And then finally just kind of blurted out like, it wasn't a blurt, it was like, I think this might actually make this person feel a little bit better and less alone. Is that, you know, I pivoted as well and I did perfectly fine and I'm okay, you know, I'm now in the profession.

Julia Baum (31:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (31:26)
was aiming for and it's all good, it worked out. And I could just see the relief in that person's face. So, but there, feel like there is a line like where it's no longer, like I don't wanna hear my therapist like comparing stuff that's happened to me to them, you know? Like I feel like that's, personally I don't like that.

Julia Baum (31:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I know it's fair.

It really is an expert dance. And I think it's all about the intention too. Like with what you shared, the intention was to help them kind of break the idea that they're the only one who's ever done this. And that was the idea behind it. wasn't like to be like, well, this reminds me of when

Sabrina (31:58)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (32:17)
I transitioned my career and, I feel like talking about that now, you know.

Sabrina (32:19)
Yeah.

Yeah,

it's, and it, but that's, you're right in that that, that's the part that makes it a craft, right? Is that you're intentionally shielding parts of yourself while also being vulnerable. How do you do that without giving personal details? It's hard. So you have to work for me. I think of it as, okay, I'm going to shift to the emotional stuff. And I kind of gauge like what this person might be feeling. And then we kind of go into that and, but.

Julia Baum (32:29)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (32:53)
Yeah, I've had clients for years that don't know anything about my background or if they do, it's like just a couple of details, you know? I don't know.

Julia Baum (32:59)
Yeah.

Same here.

Yeah.

Sabrina (33:06)
So interesting.

Julia Baum (33:06)
It is. Yeah,

think, unfortunately, we'll have to just continue on with this another time. But I would really love to hear from anyone listening and their take on any of this stuff in terms of like therapist vulnerability and disclosure from the therapist's perspective and the client perspective. That'd be really interesting.

Sabrina (33:13)
I just. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah,

it would. even for people who've never been to therapy, what they would imagine that that looks like, like, I'd love to hear from anyone. Like, what do you guys think about therapist self-disclosure? You know, what are you comfortable with kind of thing? Yeah.

Julia Baum (33:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And yes, one of our strengths is that we can kind of explore any topic and somehow we've gotten onto a very specific topic from our expectations versus realities conversation. yeah. All right. But until the next time.

Sabrina (33:59)
Yeah.

Yes, we meandered. That's all right.

Until

next time and yeah, we might do a follow up to this. We might not. We'll just wait and see.

Julia Baum (34:21)
Yeah, yeah. mean, if we hear from

anyone about this, I would definitely love to process that together on the show. But all right. You too. Bye.

Sabrina (34:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

All right, have a good evening or afternoon.

Bye.