From Virtual to Reality, Part 1: Navigating the Therapist's Transition

Transcript

Julia Baum (00:03.583)
Back for another episode. Welcome back, everyone. Today, we're going to be talking about our experiences as therapists with working with clients in person and working with clients online and our individual journeys with both. this topic sort of came up because Sabrina is going to be seeing some people in person.

Sabrina (00:24.887)
Hmm.

Julia Baum (00:33.631)
for the first time in a long time soon. And we had so much to say about it. We decided to hold off and just record it as a podcast episode. So here we go.

Sabrina (00:37.408)
Yeah.

Sabrina (00:49.486)
Yep, exactly. Thank you for that introduction, Julia. So yeah, I guess I'll just get started by saying that it's been five years now since I've been in person with any client. I've been strictly virtual since the pandemic, which as we all know is 2020 and it's now 2025. you know, and for me in general, think

being online has actually worked quite nicely. And I know it's not as easy for some other folks and other therapists out there, but I have gotten quite antsy in the last, I'd say year or so. And so I'm looking forward to this and also just, I'm also quite nervous because I haven't done it in a long time. And I'm just really curious to see how that might change the dynamic or, know,

Julia Baum (01:39.433)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (01:48.12)
especially some of my newer clients and yeah, all of that kind of stuff is swimming around for me right now. Yeah.

Julia Baum (01:48.314)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (01:55.049)
So are you going to be seeing anyone that you had previously seen in person before the pandemic?

Sabrina (02:05.656)
That's a great question. So yes, it's a mixed bag. Yeah.

Julia Baum (02:08.17)
Ooh. Uh-huh. So some people that you've never met in person and then other people where it's gonna be like a reunification or something.

Sabrina (02:14.167)
scene.

Sabrina (02:19.786)
Yeah, a reunification of parents or something. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, I'm feeling nervous but excited too, you know, because I mean, I remember, and I know we've talked about this before on the podcast that like, I think both of us are a little more on the introverted side. So

Julia Baum (02:24.298)
huh, huh.

Julia Baum (02:29.96)
huh. So you're feeling nervous.

Julia Baum (02:36.828)
Yeah.

Sabrina (02:47.858)
And I don't know, I feel for me that that has helped in terms of transitioning to this online virtual practice since the pandemic. I remember when I was first, especially when I was a new therapist, seeing clients in person, sometimes I would get really, really nervous for a variety of reasons. Like some of it was just like imposter syndrome, quite frankly. Another part of it was like,

Julia Baum (03:06.759)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (03:16.266)
Yeah, did I know what I was doing, which I guess is related to imposter syndrome. But there's just a different energy when you're in person. You know, there's like, it's not on a screen, it's not two dimensional anymore. It's fully embodied. I just, it's been five years. That's what keeps going through my mind and like, I haven't had it.

Julia Baum (03:20.669)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (03:26.611)
Hmm?

Julia Baum (03:38.984)
Yeah.

Sabrina (03:41.836)
chance really to even process that because I've been trying to organize the trip and everything. So it's weird.

Julia Baum (03:46.761)
Yeah, guess for me, it was basically like four years. I think I went back to some in-person stuff, I guess it was last year, like last summer. So, yeah.

Sabrina (03:54.798)
you too.

Sabrina (04:03.374)
So what, okay, so I have so many questions for you then. First, what made you decide to go back in person? And you're not in person fully, is that right? Okay. Okay. So yeah.

Julia Baum (04:07.314)
Mmm, huh.

Julia Baum (04:16.987)
Now, just one day a week. So actually, it was really just like kind of responding to the demand. Like, you know, as people started like resuming more and more in-person things, you know, people were more looking for in-person. I mean, there are still lots of people that don't.

Sabrina (04:28.279)
Mmm.

Sabrina (04:36.75)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (04:46.025)
have a preference or, you know, or they prefer online, you know, but during like the heart of the pandemic, that wasn't really an option. I guess some people were doing it, but like it seems like too many logistical hurdles to navigate that. So I definitely was an offering and I don't think a lot of people were looking for it. But yeah, it's just the demand changed and I was like, well.

Sabrina (04:50.478)
Right.

Sabrina (04:58.828)
now.

Sabrina (05:02.606)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Baum (05:15.559)
you know, why not? And so I just I rented a space and it took it didn't take that long. And then I got like a couple people and you know, just filled up the day. Yeah.

Sabrina (05:30.53)
That's great. you, it sounds like there is a demand for that right now. And I've noticed that too. Yeah. So were you gonna say something?

Julia Baum (05:37.201)
Yeah, I think so.

Julia Baum (05:44.552)
No. Go ahead.

Sabrina (05:46.191)
My next question for you is what was it like the first time you stepped back into an office, you know a year ago that that first Stepping in and then the first client. Yeah

Julia Baum (05:57.326)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

it actually felt like great to meet with someone in person. I didn't think it was going to be that different because I feel very present and connected with people through telehealth. Like, I'm not like really aware that it's telehealth. I feel very like in the zone and I, you know, seeing their facial expressions and I feel like I get

Sabrina (06:14.807)
Yeah.

Sabrina (06:20.94)
Me too.

Sabrina (06:28.866)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (06:32.742)
you know, what's going on. really don't feel limited, but I don't know. I think like in person, it's just, I don't know. I don't know. It just felt like really comfortable, like actually more comfortable than it felt before I went fully online. And, you know, when I was fully in person,

Sabrina (06:49.216)
Mmm.

Sabrina (06:54.67)
Mmm.

Julia Baum (06:58.619)
versus now, for some reason I feel more comfortable. I guess maybe just because I'm more experienced in general as a therapist. I also think the office has something to do with it. And even the chair, this whole setup I have now is way more comfy than the setup I had before. So that could be part of it.

Sabrina (07:05.89)
That could be, but...

Sabrina (07:12.879)
yeah.

Sabrina (07:22.168)
mean, that could be a big part of it. remember, it's funny, because I started my private practice, I think, a little after you did, or a little after you went into yours. But I transitioned to full-time private practice, like not too long before, unfortunately, the pandemic started. So I was in the process of furnishing this office that I had rented full-time. like, yeah, I mean,

Julia Baum (07:31.174)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (07:41.991)
Mm-mm.

Julia Baum (07:47.047)
No, I didn't realize that.

Sabrina (07:51.967)
No, yeah, that's no, that's true. think I can't remember if it was the end of 2018 or 2019 when I signed that lease on the office in Midtown but Yeah, so So I had you know, it was still in my mind like do I want it to look like this and let me change some things around and like all of that and the whole like choice of Choosing a seat that you're potentially going to be sitting in for like hours Was a big deal, you know and it makes

Julia Baum (08:09.223)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (08:16.871)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Sabrina (08:21.6)
It makes such a difference whether or not you're comfortable. I could, I could go on and on about this. I like that makes some sense. But I'm wondering though, from your perspective, was there anything else about just being with your clients in person that was different than, yeah, the second time?

Julia Baum (08:23.803)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (08:41.945)
Mm-hmm.

Like the second time around.

Julia Baum (08:52.131)
I do think the logistics of the room made a big difference. It's really interesting. First of all, my old setup, was a little further away. The chair and the couch were a little further away just because of the way the room was. There was also a little glass coffee table between us. And even though it's like,

Sabrina (08:56.748)
Yeah.

Sabrina (09:09.358)
Hmm.

Sabrina (09:17.774)
Hmm.

Julia Baum (09:18.758)
glass and it's small. is like a divider there. This time my office is like more like plush furniture and it's a smaller room. So it just feels more comfortable and cozy and stuff. But the other variable, which I don't know which is more significant here, but I am a more experienced therapist than I was just because of time.

Sabrina (09:24.354)
Yeah.

Sabrina (09:34.862)
Hmm.

Sabrina (09:46.541)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (09:46.854)
And in general, I feel more comfortable with clients and challenging situations or whatever. But I don't know. Yeah, it just feels more relaxed.

Sabrina (10:03.256)
I mean, I think both of those things are so important. It's maybe hard to tease out if one has more of an effect or another. And I don't know if that would be useful or not. But certainly the experience part makes a huge difference. that's the same thing I was thinking of too when I first started my private practice. I remember being so nervous because I had never done anything like

Julia Baum (10:09.029)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (10:20.068)
Yeah.

Sabrina (10:30.904)
kind of on my own before like entrepreneurial in New York City, you know, and that freaked me out because it's New York and it's a big scary city. Even though I'd lived there for years at that point. But then, you know, there was that factor and like, am I going to get clients? And, and then just like, can I do this on my own, even though I was already licensed and like independently licensed. But yeah, the experience thing like,

Julia Baum (10:34.181)
Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (10:54.305)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (11:01.75)
I don't know, it just seems so much more natural now when I'm going to work. Like I don't really have to think about or think as hard about certain things that I remember being like a slog when I first started.

Julia Baum (11:12.858)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (11:17.478)
Definitely, which I think it also speaks to how powerful telehealth can be, that we can grow so much as therapists and have such meaningful experiences online. And I really do feel that way. It's strange. I don't feel like anything is missing.

Sabrina (11:28.268)
Yeah.

Sabrina (11:33.123)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (11:37.517)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (11:45.99)
But there's just like a, it's a different feeling. There's like a, I guess it's a different type of comfort. Maybe just different. Cause when you're working most likely from home on telehealth, you're also comfortable cause you're at home, know?

Sabrina (11:56.749)
Yeah.

Sabrina (12:04.598)
No, that's true. You're in your comfort zone. You get to decide. It's not like you have to worry about the person you're renting from or the clinic that you might be working for or like all those things. Yeah.

Julia Baum (12:12.749)
Yeah, there's.

That's a good point. mean, there were so many like little stressors that I would deal with working in person. Like my office was like kind of right by the building door and it was it was like a very eclectic building and there was like a recording studio on my floor and like every now and then it would all of a sudden be like really loud. And so I'd get like

Sabrina (12:28.971)
you

Julia Baum (12:45.989)
kind of worried, like, please don't play any music tonight. You know what mean? Or people coming and going from the main door and like smoking and like the smoke coming from under the door and like just things that you don't have to worry about in your home environment. takes like, that's very distracting when you're like, my God, like.

Sabrina (12:46.19)
yeah.

Sabrina (12:52.173)
my gosh.

Sabrina (12:56.652)
Yeah

Sabrina (13:06.478)
Yeah.

Sabrina (13:10.957)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (13:12.92)
There's like ruckus going on outside this room.

Sabrina (13:16.334)
Now, I'm so glad you brought that up. I remember being really stressed out about stuff like that, pre pandemic, what, what is this going to seem like? How, how is this affecting my client? And then kind of having like this inflated sense of responsibility for their feelings, you know, because of it, it's like, I'm supposed to be making this, you know, comfortable and I don't have control over this siren that's outside or the

Julia Baum (13:21.496)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (13:35.268)
Mmm.

Julia Baum (13:39.16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Sabrina (13:45.282)
you know, person that's yelling on the store, on the front store, front steps or whatever. So like, no, what you're saying is absolutely valid. Like I remember distinctly.

Julia Baum (13:48.962)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Baum (13:56.933)
yeah, yeah, that reminds me also like the train was really nearby, like the J train like going over the bridge was really close. So like every like seven minutes or whatever, but

Sabrina (14:01.707)
Sabrina (14:05.656)
No.

Ha ha ha.

Did it shake at all? did it shake your office? A little bit. Yeah.

Julia Baum (14:16.964)
It was right there. But anyway, yeah, just I guess those are also like New York City issues in a way. But.

Sabrina (14:25.026)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (14:26.988)
Anyway, yeah, when you're working from home, you can really like curate a very therapeutically conducive space for yourself and you don't have as much control when you're at an office.

Sabrina (14:38.615)
Yeah.

Sabrina (14:43.582)
Yeah, the other thing that I was going to say too is that it's like really only half your body showing on camera. So if you wanted to, you could just like wear sweatpants or even your underwear. Not that I've done that. Maybe sweatpants.

Julia Baum (14:49.837)
Yeah.

That's true. I mean, that's like a thing across the board, you know, like people working from home. It's like, you only have to be presentable from the top up. But anyway, yeah, I do really, I like both. They're both good, but it's nice to have variety. know, it's like...

Sabrina (15:02.336)
Yeah.

Sabrina (15:12.355)
Nice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (15:18.519)
You have like multiple ice cream flavors that you like. They're not necessarily better or worse.

Sabrina (15:22.134)
Ha ha ha!

I like that as a metaphor for this because, you know, again, like before the pandemic started, honestly, I would never have thought that I would enjoy online counseling as much or therapy as much as in person. And honestly, I was biased. had my own personal bias thinking like, there's no way this is going to be as effective, especially with like EMDR. But that turned out to be not true.

Julia Baum (15:39.971)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (15:50.679)
Yeah.

Sabrina (15:55.243)
And EMDR, it's a little more challenging, I will say, just connectivity issues. It's more sensitive to those, because it's very like in the moment type of therapy. So in person would really get rid of that. And then the bilateral stimulation stuff is, it's more easy to control in person. But at this point, I'm so used to it that I don't notice it.

Julia Baum (16:02.659)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (16:07.833)
huh. huh.

Julia Baum (16:16.609)
Yeah.

Sabrina (16:23.778)
Yeah, it's really effective. I don't know.

Julia Baum (16:26.371)
Well, I think there is a bias across the whole industry that telehealth wasn't as effective. And I remember sometimes here and there I would see like psychology today listings where people would say like telehealth only. And I'd be like, what a joke. Like, what kind of therapy do they think they're doing?

Sabrina (16:32.334)
Yeah.

Yeah, there was.

Sabrina (16:50.252)
Yeah!

Julia Baum (16:54.952)
I would think that person had no credibility at all and just like, anyone who would see that therapist clearly doesn't actually want to get better. But it's kind of the way we're taught, that we were taught. I think we were taught with that bias. I remember like,

Sabrina (17:08.494)
how things have changed.

Sabrina (17:16.312)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (17:24.035)
Occasionally here and there, like pre pandemic, I would do telehealth, but it was on like a unnecessary type basis, not just like, which do you prefer? But just I remember actually one person calling me saying they they just wanted to do telehealth, even though they like lived in the city and everything. And I was like, this person's not serious. I don't know. But.

Sabrina (17:34.262)
Yeah, same.

Sabrina (17:50.35)
Did you end up meeting with them?

Julia Baum (17:54.755)
no, I did. I don't, don't remember what happened with that, but I just remember my instant thought about it. But otherwise I would just, I would do it with like very established clients that like, you know, you know, went, went off to college or something or, know, we wanted to keep it going, but I, I wouldn't have agreed. I don't, I don't know. I just would have thought like, this isn't real therapy. So

Sabrina (17:58.831)
Okay.

Sabrina (18:03.479)
Yeah.

Sabrina (18:22.402)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Baum (18:23.958)
Then when the pandemic started and we just like had to dive right in, it did feel really awkward. But then it like all that stuff disappeared and it's like, it's the same.

Sabrina (18:30.343)
my gosh.

Sabrina (18:39.85)
Yeah, I would absolutely agree. That was my experience too. It's the same and, know, yeah, they're not physically in the room with you, but in a way it's also like, I think on my end, there's that comfortable piece or that piece of just being in your own space, right, that you curate, that's your home. And the ability to shut down the computer at...

Julia Baum (19:01.473)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (19:08.014)
you know, at the end of the session means it's like a quicker transition, right? You're not like when you're in a physical office, you're waiting for that person to kind of, okay, close the door and then maybe they stay in the waiting room for a little while. And then there might be a transition where you have to go out and call your next client and they're still there. Or, you know, like all that, all that little stuff. And then just like the environmental noise and stuff like you were saying before, but

Julia Baum (19:26.178)
Mmm, that's true.

Julia Baum (19:34.689)
That is very true. Yeah. All of those things that like the you think about how that impacts the client and even like, yeah, two clients kind of passing each other like one's coming out, one's coming in. It's like, you're seeing her too. Like you like imagine what they're thinking and just those there's just certain circumstances that don't happen.

Sabrina (19:50.573)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Baum (20:04.374)
with telehealth, which maybe like streamlines it a little bit. It's very clear cut. Like we click in, we're here and then we sign out and it's closed. Yeah. But yeah, there aren't those little transitions of like, I don't know. Yeah.

Sabrina (20:10.947)
Yeah.

Sabrina (20:14.976)
And... Done. Yeah.

Sabrina (20:24.32)
Yeah, because it's, and it's not like, okay, whether it's in person or online, you know, okay, the session is done, but you can't just close your laptop and then, okay, that person disappears. That person's still there and you have to like gradually walk away from them and get to the elevators or get, walk down the staircase and like, they're still in the vicinity or something.

Julia Baum (20:32.862)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (20:40.466)
Right?

Julia Baum (20:48.617)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (20:52.522)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (20:53.292)
Or I don't know if you've ever had it where like a client comes back because they forgot something or something like that, you And the other, the last thing I'll say is like also as a therapist, I know, you know, cause I used to have like little like hint of social anxiety when I was younger. So I would get sometimes a little bit of that anxiety even with clients sometimes, but that it was rare. And once in a while it would pop up.

Julia Baum (20:57.929)
Uh-huh, right.

Julia Baum (21:12.04)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (21:21.408)
Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (21:23.47)
The screen of the computer actually kind of, for me, really mitigated that for some reason, because it creates a separation. So, you know, yeah.

Julia Baum (21:30.47)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (21:35.252)
Yeah.

Which is also interesting from the client side, like I think some clients can open up more easily over the computer.

Sabrina (21:47.752)
Yeah, have you had that experience too?

Julia Baum (21:51.359)
Well, I guess I can't really compare. But I just have to think, if that happens to you, I'm sure it happens to other people. And I mean, yeah, I've definitely dealt with social anxiety, too. I'm just trying to think if the computer has impacted that. Maybe, because you're not thinking about.

Sabrina (21:56.002)
Yeah.

Sabrina (21:59.585)
Yeah.

Sabrina (22:03.886)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (22:20.377)
you what are my feet doing right now? How am I crossing my legs? You know, all of those things that could be distracting. So clients don't have to deal with that. You know, if they are going to be self-conscious, it's just about whatever is like over here. So, you know, that could help kind of just be more present with the work.

Sabrina (22:24.052)
Yeah... Yeah...

Sabrina (22:35.852)
Yeah.

Sabrina (22:42.688)
Yeah, honestly, I remember that in like early on in the transition. So with, you know, still in 2020. But now I have no idea. I just really don't know what that's going to be like in a week and a half to be or two weeks, I guess.

Julia Baum (22:53.001)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (22:57.639)
Yeah, yeah, I think I expected it to feel really unfamiliar to be in person with a client. And yeah, that was my surprise, like that it just felt like so natural, like getting back on a bike is just like, yeah, this is this is what I do. huh.

Sabrina (23:08.739)
Yeah.

Sabrina (23:14.016)
Really? That's...

That's so cool. Did you have any discussions with your, and I'm not, know, of course we're not gonna violate HIPAA or confidentiality, of course, but did you have any discussions with anybody about being back in person? it's so good to see you in person. Was there any difference in the way you greeted each other? any...

Julia Baum (23:26.784)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (23:37.839)
well, so I'm now in a different state than I was pre pandemic, right? So I'm not seeing anyone in person that I had worked with in New York. However, before I moved, there was like kind of this window in the pandemic where people were like sort of doing stuff. And I

Sabrina (23:44.974)
That's right.

Sabrina (23:53.582)
Okay.

Sabrina (24:06.97)
yeah.

Julia Baum (24:07.683)
offered all of my clients at the time. I mean, yeah, they were all local for the most part. And probably about half of them I was working with in person before the pandemic, half of them not. But anyway, so I told everyone, like, I'm moving out of the state. But because there's kind of this window where things seem sort of safe.

Sabrina (24:16.652)
Yeah.

Sabrina (24:21.998)
Mmm.

Sabrina (24:29.784)
Fuck.

Julia Baum (24:36.702)
I'm going to do like a week at the office before I leave. So if you want to meet in person, we can do that, whatever. Way less people than I expected took me up on that. Like a lot of people were just like, no, this is fine. I don't feel the need to do that. But some people did. And like for some, it was like, oh, we're back. And then for other people, it's like,

Sabrina (24:42.316)
Nice.

Sabrina (24:59.022)
interesting.

Julia Baum (25:04.114)
I've never seen you in like full form before. it was, it was interesting.

Sabrina (25:08.142)
Okay, so you did have, yeah, and that's kind of what I'm anticipating, but I just don't know, because, you know, all the clients that we have are so different and depending on the stuff you're working on too. Yeah.

Julia Baum (25:15.078)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (25:19.053)
Mm-hmm. Very different. Yeah. yeah, like there were a lot of people that were like, no thanks, I'm good. And then there were some people that were really seemed appreciative and like it really meant a lot to them. And especially because they knew I was moving and stuff. was like meaningful, like sort of like a last experience in person sort of thing.

Sabrina (25:27.694)
So wild.

Sabrina (25:37.518)
you

Yeah.

Sabrina (25:48.087)
Right. Yeah. That's so interesting. So I guess we're getting close to the end of time, I think, that we had decided for today. What do you think?

Julia Baum (25:48.987)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (25:59.422)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, I did want to ask you, like, yeah, I guess I'm wondering, is there anything that you feel, like, nervous about? Or, well, I know we said, like, you feel kind of nervous and excited. Like, what are you nervous about? What are you excited about?

Sabrina (26:19.638)
Yeah, great questions. I'm nervous that some of the pre-pandemic nerves that I had when I was less experienced, like over five years ago now, will come back. But I kind of know that's a bit irrational. And I don't really truly believe that. But there's a little bit of that. I'm also nervous that maybe

Julia Baum (26:32.537)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (26:48.236)
you know, my clients will start to really want me to go back in person and I'm not currently living in the city, as you know. So right now that wouldn't be super possible on a regular basis.

Julia Baum (26:55.236)
huh.

Julia Baum (27:01.563)
Hmm.

Sabrina (27:03.83)
And I'm just nervous that it's going to change the way that we work together. but I don't know, you know, and I'm excited to see them. Some of them I remember like, I haven't seen their full bodies, you know, for like five years. And some of them have like, you know, been married now and like in that, in that time, major life changes and stuff. it's like,

Julia Baum (27:17.413)
Yeah.

Julia Baum (27:23.832)
huh. Yeah.

Julia Baum (27:30.588)
yeah, huh.

Sabrina (27:33.832)
You know, these are like, I've witnessed an evolution, so I'm kind of excited to see that. And just to be able to give them a little bit more presence, if that's what it ends up doing, I don't know.

Julia Baum (27:35.612)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (27:39.414)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Julia Baum (27:48.838)
Well, it will be really interesting to see how it plays out and how you feel it went. Yeah, so I know you're renting a space for one day.

Sabrina (27:51.554)
Yeah.

Sabrina (27:56.397)
Yeah.

Thanks, Julia.

Sabrina (28:05.902)
I actually just added a second day. Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Baum (28:08.251)
okay. So two days. So are you gonna kind of like get in there early and like situate and all that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina (28:18.38)
yeah, like an hour early. That's what I'm planning. Yeah, I'm going to get there early and just, you know, I've, I've seen the photos of the office. They look beautiful. So I'm not too worried about that. I might bring my own tissue box for clients. Yeah. I remember like deducting tissue boxes on my deductions on my tax returns. Like you're just so funny. All those years ago. Yeah, was literally an expense.

Julia Baum (28:26.822)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (28:37.66)
Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yes, work supplies. Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina (28:47.256)
So I'll probably bring that. I might bring just, I don't know, something from my office as a thing to be familiar with and then move my chair around. That's the first thing I'm gonna, like you had mentioned earlier, right? Like I wanna see what the most comfortable position on the chair is gonna be. And also how, I wonder where my clients are gonna sit if they're gonna move their chair and how that.

Julia Baum (29:03.49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julia Baum (29:14.493)
yeah. huh. yeah. I always like test all of it out and the pillows and everything like, yeah.

Sabrina (29:16.846)
and they reflect how they're feeling and you know, yeah. Yeah. Are people, yeah. Yeah.

Julia Baum (29:27.309)
It does, it does matter because like any little thing that you're like, this pillow is rock hard or something is like, it's taking you away. So you want to be in a good spot where everything is comfortable from the start.

Sabrina (29:35.597)
Hahaha!

Sabrina (29:41.878)
Yeah, that's the thing I'm also nervous about. It's not my own space that I decorated myself or that I like, you know, but it's, I don't mind right now. All right, yeah.

Julia Baum (29:48.004)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Julia Baum (29:53.838)
Yeah, well, we'll follow up and it'll be exciting to hear how it

Sabrina (29:58.126)
We will.

Sabrina (30:02.434)
Yeah, we'll do a 2.0 episode or something on this. All right.

Julia Baum (30:04.652)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, well, until next time.

Sabrina (30:10.777)
Thank you, bye bye.

Julia Baum (30:12.924)
Bye.